Shell timeshare - Carriage Hills Resort
April 30th, 2007So Michelle and I went to Carriage Hills north of Barrie for the weekend getaway.
It sucked. The place wasn’t that great and the presentation that was to allow ‘discount’ wasn’t really what we had in mind. No, to be honest I knew it would go something like that… but we didn’t realize they would attack us personally when we said no. Saying we are not smart (not true), poor and probably not fit for the deal (possibly true).
You pay $24k to obtain one lot, which is 1/51 of a room (51 weeks). That gies you 5250 points. From my memory, one week of a vacation during peak hour was 2500 points, off season was 1000 and in between was 1500. Airfare seemed to be 2000 points.
Of course, there was yearly maintenance fee of $600s.
Let’s talk about getting this points. In order to pay off $24k, we would have to pay $340 or so for 4 years AFTER the 10% downpayment. That’s $2400 right off the top and $340 for next 4 years.
First year, it would cost $6480 and following three years would cost $4080.
$3000 ~ $4000 has usually been our budget for airfares and what not for 1~2 week trips. So in a way, except for the first year, we would be paying as much for ONE lot. So far so good.
How much point was that? 5250. Now, Airfare for both of us would cost 4000 points (2000 x 2). That leaves one week in some remote place during off-peak season.
But…that doesn’t cover the food nor other expenses which are normally covered in OUR budget.
So what do they tell us? We should either pool one year’s point (meaning we don’t travel that year) or buy one more lot!
So if we own 2/51 of the share of a room, that means we will have 10500 points for lots of goodies! Yay…but of course, that means we will be paying almost $10000 first year and probably around $8000 for next 5 years…
Formula I came up with:
($48000 + $1000 (let’s say maintenance is only a 1000 instead of 2 x 600) * number of years) / $4000 (what we would spend a year) = number of years.
So when is the break-even point considering we plan to travel once every year? 16 years. After 16 years once we have paid it all off… we would have been paying only $1200 or so for maintenance fee each year and we would travel in style.
16 freaking years. I think I can buy a house in that time frame instead of 2/51th of a room.
In the end, I suppose it’s a life style. And we haven’t even begun looking around for potential investments… and that’s what we told them. And they shot us down. Questioning our interllect. And wondering how Michelle does her financial planning when we told Michelle’s career.
I think Michelle said on the way back that those who make impulsive purchase — since they don’t give you time to think over night… in fact, they took away all those figures so we couldn’t take it home — are the ones who make wrong decisions. I, on the hand, felt they sold their soul to devils. And by selling other people time shares, after 51st ‘victim’ they get theirs back. So they work to ’share’ the good news.
Probably my view on this is tainted; I am still quite upset about the whole ordeal with Brook, our ‘guide’.
Jin out.
April 30th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
I don’t think your view is tainted. It was pretty spot on. Though for me, I guess I was lucky in that the salesman who talked to me was a lot nicer and cordial (though no less smarmy and salesman-ish).
I still think their suites and rooms are spectacular, but it is really not something I personally feel like paying a fortune for. I also enjoyed the nice little sandwiches and soups they had there.
April 30th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Hey,
You actually forgot to mentioned how Brooke kept saying that you should calculate to see what is the ‘best offer’ with her example of Thailand, saying that a stay in hotels there was about $50 only so it would be ideal that if going to Thailand, you should cash in your points instead, which that 5,250 will give you about $900 while you pay a lot more to get those points (considering that you are paying about $4,000 plus $600 of maintenance fee to redeem it for $900)…
what a rip-off… and you don’t even have to be a financial advisor to know that. I think a lot of people get tricked into doing so in the spot after hearing so much about it, you don’t stop to think about it until it is too late and then hope for the best out of it.
February 15th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Thanks for recording your experience.
Fwiw, my wife and I have been to two “no obligation” presentations at this place, and when we turned them down it wasn’t pretty… The first salesperson was hard to tolerate as she tried to build rapport with us, but she seemed nice and we tried to be nice to her. Unfortunately, this may have built up her hopes, and she broke down when we told her the deal was not for us.
The other guy appeared to be local talent, and he got visibly angry when we turned him down.
In each case, the reason we had went is because they promised us a “new great deal” so I went looking for a fire sale–none was in evidence. The only thing we got was super-high pressure bs. We bought an even year interval a few years before this on the “weeks” system (which preceeded the “points” system) and it works out to a reasonable yearly get away because we split the unit and take the 1bdrm one year and the studio the next (our “mortgage” was pretty small, and we paid it off right away and forgot about it, which I think you have to do for this deal to make sense). We might consider adding another week if it came cheap, but the points system is endlessly baffling, and I can’t imagine C-Hills has much trading power compared to Hilton Head or Hawaii.
If anyone is thinking timeshare you’d probably be better just to start looking for someone who really wants to let theirs go cheap, because the maintenance fees are high enough that the seller should be happy you’ll give them much at all. Wave a couple K in front of them and see what happens….
cheers,
Mark
March 15th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Hey;
I went today on recommendation of many friends. I am a very skeptical person. Went anyways. Yep, after the big snow storms we have had and the nice sun today, the sidewalks were dirty with sand. We went in, met with a knowledgable friendly (perhaps experienced) sales staff. The room was busy and noisy. He told us right off that as he presented the information that if we were not interested to let him know. I threw some very difficult questions to him, which he answered quite well to my satisfaction. In the end, we said no, but we were treated very well from beginning to end. The rooms, yes they were nice, the area was nice, just not for us at this time. I would recommend them to anyone. I felt that the presentation to us anyways… was sincere and appeared to be honest. They wrote numbers on a sheet for us and I was allowed to bring it home. Perhaps it depends on the experience of the staff as to how one is treated and dealt with. I even asked if we could see a copy of the disclosure statement before we agreed to purchase or not, and they promptly got us a copy to read ( I do contract law). Of all the documents I saw, everything was on the level. To each their own I guess. And yes, you guys are right, they are there to high pressure you into a rush decision. I guess Buyer Beware and do your homework before you go for the presentation so you are more informed.
Regards;
Cynthia
March 20th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I’ve been to these a few times. My wife and I attend them typically twice a year for a mini-break. Thinking that we would be on a “blacklist” by now, they keep inviting us back. Yes we do lie and say that we haven’t been in the previous year. Anyway, we do find the sales staff a little slimy, but they have always been cordial. We simply listen to their speel and then flatly say no. After they here no calmly a few times, they get the picture. For what we pay (sometimes it’s like $100 or for free) every six months for a 2-3 night stay. I’m satisfied with the product…I.E. don’t buy anything, just take the freebie again and again. The place is nice but a week there would drive me (and the kids) stupidly bored. If you really want to buy, check the web first. People are almost giving these things away for $1000. When you think of what you are buying, all you are doing is committing to pay $600 per year for the next 99 years for their condo fees. Add this up, typical condo fees for a similar unit in the City runs about $4-500 a month, these guys are collecting like 30k per year for “maintenance”. In terms of a business model, they could give the units away gratis, guaranteeing themselves $2400 a month income, cover a 250k mortgage, maintenance and taxes. The initial hard sell is just slush. The point is don’t buy at the hard sell for anything more than $1000… if you really want to. My honest advice, take the freebie and run.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
I was googling “Carriage Hills rip off” and got your website. My husband and I bought at Carriage Hills 8 years ago–your wife is right–those who make impulse purchases, make mistakes. It’s been awful. The maintenance fees have gone up steadily and it’s very, very difficult to exchange with RCI. Most of the sales pitch that we received was basically a lie. Once you have purchased, they treat you horribly. We were late on the maintenance fee this year because Carriage Hills sent it to our old address. They are now trying to charge us $500 in addition to the now almost $800 maintenance fee. NUTS! They threaten to ruin your credit rating by “foreclosing” on your property if you don’t pay. That’s the problem with “ownership”. So, it’s been a disaster for us…we paid 11K upfront–no one pays the high number that they give you initially…we’ve never–and I mean NEVER–used the timeshare…we exchanged for a week in Hawaii successfully–by planning the vacation 2 years in advance!!!but once the time care around to go we had had a second child and couldn’t travel. Timeshares are pretty well a scam as far as I can tell. I wish that we hadn’t been so gullible and impulsive!
July 1st, 2008 at 2:21 pm
I just wanted to make a further comment re: Carriage Hills in response to the following comment by Cynthia:
“I threw some very difficult questions to him, which he answered quite well to my satisfaction. ”
The problem with Carriage Hills sales presentations–and perhaps this is true of all timeshares–is that they will say anything. Yes, anything. We absolutely grilled our sales rep. re: exchange power and resale value. We were repeatedly told things that were outright lies. THEN, when we went to sign the contract, there were/are clauses in the contract that said–in laymen’s terms– “you were not told anything regarding the trading power of this resort”–My husband is a lawyer, and somehow we still got suckered in and signed. The thing is if you actually assume that the product that they are describing in the sales presentation is what you are buying, it can seem like an OK deal. But what they describe has little to do with what you actually purchase. AND, you have to just assume that they are brazen enough to lie in your face. The management–as far as I can tell–is no different. BUT–if you want a Carriage Hills timeshare–you can have ours for free!
September 10th, 2008 at 10:57 am
My wife and I just went on a Timeshare Presentation this weekend. Like everyone else we went for the free $75 Keg, free night, $50 Carriage Hills dollars and $40 in cash. The presentation was well done. We have been on a few of these and I must say this was the best. The resort is beautiful and they have tons of activities. The initial cost came in at 35K. We eventually got them down to $16K for a every other year and on points. We currently own 2 timeshares - Georgian Manor and Club Intrawest. While weeks and points have their pros and cons I like points better as you can go away for a couple days if you want. We bought our first timeshare about 15 years agao and it has been the best thing we ever did. My kids are spoiled.
We were seconds away from buying our third timeshare before we backed out at the last minute. If anyone want to sell me their Carriage Hills or Carriage Ridge timeshare then let me know.
Thanks.
September 16th, 2008 at 3:55 am
@ Rob H.
You state at the end of your comments above, “If anyone want to sell me their Carriage Hills or Carriage Ridge timeshare then let me know.”
Can you suggest how I could contact you since there is no email address or any other contact information listed.
My wife and I have been owners at Carriage Hills since the 1990’s. Over the years, we have purchased several weeks at Carriage Hills and have always had very good experiences with them including exchanging our units to travel elsewhere and spoiling our kids also, as you indicated about yours. However, we are at a stage in our lives where we want to sell at least one of them (which is points by the way, which you indicated you actually prefer). Since you just posted your comments 6 days ago, I hope you see this posting and respond with information or advice so that I can contact you directly. Also, if anyone else reads this posting and knows if there is a way or how to contact a poster directly, could you please advise.
Thanks
November 18th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Also own at carriage hills, its an every other year season and its a floating weeking in the white. Have used it once since Ive got it. If you want to buy it let me know, I will let it go for fairly cheap!
705-797-0439
December 20th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Just came back today (20 Dec 08) from a no-obligation presentation. Gift was a nice. Lots of pressure. Half way through the presentation, the salesperson asked us if we were interested in the timeshare. I answered, we ‘d like to think about it. Salesperson repiled that “thinking about it” was not part of the package and it was yes or no. To which I said answered no. Then he wanted to know why we wanted to think about it and what we wanted to think about. To which I said that I was feeling pressured. Then Brokkoe came along for more pressure. I wqas getting fed up and I said`that we had been here for the required 90 minutes and would like our gift. Brooke got upset and apologized to the salesperson. Then we wento to another room room a “survey” which was a disguised attempt to sell a lesser product!
January 23rd, 2009 at 6:33 am
Rob…and Marty………YES, the points program is the way to go for sure. I own 3 weeks of timeshare myself, although not points. IMPORTANT………….the points DO NOT GO WITH A RESALE. So, Marty, you own a points week at Carriage Hills…and Rob wants to buy it. He will only be purchasing your week…..not the points. The points can only be sold through the developer. This protects the owners investment. Beware of resale timeshare. YOU DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMTANCE GET THE POINTS. I knew this before, and during our presentation, flat out asked, and was told…..POINTS DO NOT GO WITH A RE-SALE….ANYWERE.
January 28th, 2009 at 10:38 am
You are correct. shell points do not go with resales for obvious reasons. As for the guy who says take the freebee and run and who openly admitted to lying, how can you people continuosly trash timeshare agents for lying when you blatently lie yourself!!! i can imagine how frustrating it must be for the agent to be on commission and have to constatly be scammed by idiots like you!!! No wonder they lose it sometimes!! If your not sincerely interested, don,t go!!! I,m a happy Shell menber(elite) and wouldn,t dream of wasting someones time when they have families to feed. I guess you get treated they way you treat other people!
January 28th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
We purchased a timeshare at Carridge Hills , 2001, we recieved the same presentation in the weeks program that we recieved this january in the points program . I find it too similar to be interested . The weks program was a complete disastor, our sales rep pointed this out to us , now if we pay another $13 000 , we get points and a membership in RCI, the organization the sales rep acknowledged did not work and cost too much . This deal also includes more fees per year. We asked for a demo for last minute deals , no one could ever acomplish this feat , but we heard tales of joy an happiness , not validated by any facts . Yes we too got the tears , and tourture treatment. However on exit we were offered the 1/2 price thin , once more i asked for the demo , it seems this can not happen untill after you part with your cash.
If you want a cheap shell vacation try the adds on Orbitz $95 per nite , 7 nites looks cheaper than maintenance and points annual fees for a week , and you still have your money.
This is a bad deal with no resale value , it not a charity , your donation wont get you a tax reciept
July 3rd, 2009 at 6:24 pm
I am confused about resale and points. It is my understanding that the shell points do get transfered to the new owner but they do not qualify for the collections or elite programs unless bought from the developer? I am looking to buy a unit at the hills that is on points I currently own at the ridge.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Rob H:
Are you still interested in buying or maybe you have already bought another unit at Carriage Hills? I have a unit I am selling. You can contact me at 563-8498 area code (905).
January 3rd, 2010 at 1:43 am
Can anyone tell me how you legally sell a timeshire ? I own two with points at Carriage Hills.
The real estate lawyer I contacted was no help.
It seems to me owners have legal title and need a legal transfer of title just like selling a house.
But the lawyers I have contacted had no clue how to do this.
Thanks for any legal info on selling.
February 8th, 2010 at 11:28 am
As for re-sales, they do not want you to use a re-sale company because of the implications, however you can go directly to Carriage hills/Ridge and they will tell you what to do.
Do not by a re-sale from anywhere else by through Hills and Ridge otherwise you are not eligible to add the sale to your points. This is to protect all owners.
I have owned a hills for years and am just thrilled with them. I have now 3 weeks and have moved to Elite status which i recommed.
I did not find any of the presentations to be poorly done and I have been to many US presentations. Some have been nasty. But you expect a certain experience at a diner, you expect a certain experience at the doctor’s … this is just the time share experience.
This is a choice for a lifestyle of vacations. I recognize that they are not for everyone and no one should feel that they must do it, but I have found nothing but value for my $.
March 19th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Anyone interested in buying my timeshare at Carriage Ridge, please email me @ maximagle@hotmail.com no agent, this is private sale
April 12th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Ralph works there and he is the biggest liowar of them all. He is the big guy..
June 23rd, 2010 at 7:33 am
My family has owned at carriage hills for years, 2 bed/2 bath floating week. Our draw there has always been that our 2 bedroom week can be exchanged for 2 weeks in 1 bedroom through rci. this has allowed us to book a 1 bedroom for a week somewhere in the world and still use a 1 bedroom at hills for winter skiing for a week.
my kids are both off to school now and my wife and i would like to sell our hills week and buy a permanent week at the marriot in aruba, we have friends there. If anyone is interested pls contact us. atvguy8@hotmail.com
July 8th, 2010 at 9:17 am
I am suggeting that we as owners at Carriage Hills need to start asking questions about what is going on there. I feel there are some not normal actitives that are NOT consistant with a TIMESHARE. Rooms are being rented like hotel rooms, to groups, and owners are being blocked from selling on the property.
If you are interested in an investigation and perhaps a class action suit, please email me.
Deborah
dfrenette54@aol.com
August 31st, 2010 at 1:44 pm
I have one week with Carriage Hills and one week with Carriage Ridge (both are on points). I am looking to sell both of them. Has anyone ever sold or bought a re-sale for Carriage Hills/Ridge? Are the points transfered to the new owner? Any comments and/or advise would be appreciated.